Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care, retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ opening music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Well, hello and welcome to Making It Grow.

I'm Amanda McNulty, a horticulture agent with Clemson Extension.

And I get to come over and be with to Terasa Lott, who's my co-host and now has a new job and I think you told them that we were going to unleash all of our admirers on them if they didn't let you promise to come back here and help us on Tuesdays.

>> Not sure I worded it exactly like that, but I did say that I really wanted to continue, if at all possible, if we could make it work, because it is so much fun to be out and about around the state and people just feel like, Hey, I recognize you.

I watch Making it Grow.

Amanda> You got to be careful about your wardrobe.

Sometimes I go to the grocery store and I don't look so hot.

They're like, oh, la,la,la,la,la.

>> I am surprised because, you know, here I typically am dressed a certain way, so I'll just be out and about in regular clothes, glasses, hair back, you know, and people still recognize us.

It is kind of fun.

Makes you stay on your toes.

Good behavior, right?

Terasa> That's right.

Amanda> Okay.

All right.

And then, Vicky Bertagnolli, we are so happy that you're here and you've been helping out the people at HGIC a lot.

Tell anybody a little bit about what HGIC is.

>> So the Home and Garden Information Center has a small team of about nine people where our clients can call or email.

And whenever they call, they get to talk to a human.

Amanda> That's pretty nice.

Vicky> And they can ask their home horticulture questions.

And we can also help people interpret their soil test results.

And so that particular HGIC, it's not just those not agents.

We also have a website with over 950 publications on it and it talks, I'm talking, the range of everything that can be in the landscape.

And I always tell people, if you're searching for a plant and you don't really see any information on the page, it might not be appropriate for South Carolina.

Amanda> Oh, that's pretty cool, yeah.

Vicky> It's very helpful for our clients to be able to have access to not just a website, but also Extension agents that can provide a lot of information.

>> And sometimes I like to see what other states might say about something, too, and Terasa, I think the most important thing I've ever learned from Clemson was something, the librarian came to talk to us at a conference and she said, When you look something up, put, you know, fire ants, and then put site colon e-d-u and you can put site colon gov sometimes and things like that and you get educational Web sites.

And so if you Edu, I can see what, if I want to, maybe Maryland has some good things and Alabama, Georgia, places around us because they might have a little bit more information just to kind of fill out the whole picture for me.

Vicky> Yeah, I generally make the recommendation -- Amanda> We can always go to Clemson first.

Yeah.

>> If you're located in South Carolina, of course, look at the HGC first, but if you can't find anything, they are, look for the states that are adjacent to us: North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida.

Look at those type of states before you start moving like up into the Northeast or down to South Florida or out West or something like that, because you're trying to find information that's pertinent to us.

Amanda> Although I tell you, sometimes in our summers now, I feel like I'm in South Florida, too.

But this has been kind of a chilly winter, so who the heck knows what's going on?

Goodness gracious.

Dr. John, who is was my professor at the University of South Carolina and is still always educating people.

We appreciate it that now that you're retired, you still come here, but you're always tromping around and stopping the car and looking for new plants.

>> Yeah, I'm still doing that and having a lot of fun.

In fact, Terasa was talking about being recognized as a part of Making It Grow someplace where she was.

And that happened to me last week while I was tromping around.

I stopped a little restaurant and a nice man and lady bought my lunch and recognized me.

Amanda> Come on!

Whoa!

Terasa> Goodness, I feel so left out.

No one's paid for my food yet.

Amanda> I'm waiting.

John> I want to go back.

Amanda> I guess you do.

(laughter) Amanda> That's kind of sweet.

John> It was a nice lunch too.

Amanda> Yeah.

I'm so glad.

Anyway, thank you for coming to help us.

>> Thanks for having me.

Amanda> Yeah, and then Davis Sanders up there at South Pleasantburg Nursery.

Pleasantburg is just a lovely name for something, isn't it?

Davis> It certainly is.

That is Greenville's original name.

Amanda> Really?

Pleasantburg?

Davis> Mmm-hmm.

Amanda> Greenville's big now.

Davis> Mmm-hmm.

And getting bigger.

Amanda> Yep.

And y'all are on the banks of the -- -- the Reedy River.

Amanda> Reedy?

Tell me what that's like.

>> Well, the Reedy River is kind of the heart of Greenville.

The first industry in Greenville was on the banks of the Reedy about where Main Street downtown Greenville is now, There's a beautiful waterfall and a park and an architectural wonder of a footbridge.

Amanda> Yeah, that's fun.

>> They have a panoramic view of the park and the falls.

Amanda> And if people jump up and down, it kind of moves around a little bit.

It's a lot of fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, so did you cast a fishing line down into the Reedy River?

Davis> Well, there's so much industrial waste that's come down over years and years, that there are caution signs all around the river, so.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Anyway, but it is to go and see that wonderful waterfall and all and I went down there one time and all these people were taking prom pictures and weddings.

It's really fun what's happening in downtown Greenville.

Specatacular!

Davis> Sure it.

Yeah.

Amanda> Okay, well, thank you so much.

And we've got some great things that you're going to enjoy seeing.

I think the Catahoula flutes just you get to listen and see and learn a lot from that.

And then Kalmia Gardens, we go see our great friend Dan Hill over there.

Kalmia Gardens is just kind of a hidden wonder and it's open every, all the time, from sunset to sundown, I think.

Beautiful, over in Hartsville.

Well, Terasa, I bet you've got some wonderful gardens of the week.

Terasa> We do.

You used the word spectacular earlier, so I like to say that our photos are spectacular thanks to you.

We get to take a virtual field trip around the state and see what's going on in your yard or your garden.

Maybe you have some exquisite indoor plants.

Or perhaps you visited a beautiful place in our great state.

We're going to start with Jessica Hudson, who shared something really fun.

Romanesco cauliflower.

Amanda> Wow!

And so I got intrigued because I wanted to learn more about it.

And so it was once grown around the Rome area and it produces light green heads composed of these numerous cone shaped flowers, and they grow in a logarithmic spiral.

It looks like a work of art when you when you look at it.

Amanda> Wow.

So it's like a chambered nautilus, kind of.

Terasa> A little bit.

Amanda> Kind of, sort of.

Okay.

Terasa> From Arnold Alier in West Columbia we have blooming rosemary.

So rosemary is generally grown for its culinary use, but in ancient times it was associated with remembrance, memory and fidelity.

>> And the European honeybees just flock to it.

And of course, they're active all year round.

So how wonderful that we have that from Bluffton, Sandie Parrot sent in our state flower, the Carolina Jessamine, and it's growing on a ten foot tall obelisk arbor.

Quite a sight to see.

From Betty Frye, a volunteer sunflower that appeared in her husband's Satsuma in the greenhouse.

So one of those happy little surprises.

Amanda> (laughs) What a treat.

And then Larry Hines in Lyman shared with us some carrots that he harvested to prepare for spring planting.

So keep those photographs coming when you see that.

Well, we'll make a post on our Facebook page that says Call for Gardens of the Week.

And that means we're collecting photos.

And if you just post your photos in the comments will select them at random for inclusion on the show.

>> Well, thanks to you and thanks to everybody since admin.

And I think there are a lot more of them.

And if people go to Facebook, I think sometimes they can see all the other great gardens that we just didn't have room for.

Terasa> That's right.

Amanda> Okay, and so I don't think you say this is prize number one, the the blue ribbon in the red room.

You'd make a, just kind of a random selection of around the state.

Okay.

Well, you know, I would be lost without my wonderful friends, Hank and Anne who live down the road from me, first of all because they're just such wonderful friends, and they have a great yard, and I can go out there, and, you know, Terasa, some people say only plant natives but we have a lot of plants that are not invasive, that are, you know, been part of our landscape for hundreds of years that are very valuable.

And one of them, I think, is camellias, especially the ones with the open centers that have lots of stamens.

And so, this is a great place for pollen and, you know, for the European honeybees.

And then also, interestingly, if you pull that part out and lick down here, there's a lot of nectar.

And the rufous hummingbird, which overwinter here, actually goes into this and gets nectar, which I think is pretty cool.

And so, I just think that that's a wonderful reason.

There's some, like Professor Sargeant that don't have any of these sexual parts.

And, but look, and then this one is also very beautiful.

Look at this.

John was explaining to me that the statements are kind of in groups, John, is that what you said?

John> Fascical bundles of things.

Amanda> Look at this one.

Isn't that just wonderful?

Look at that.

Terasa> There is so much to observe in nature if we just take the time, right?

We, you might people hear the term plant blindness that we sometimes are just oblivious to what is around us if it's not big and doesn't move or something, you know.

Amanda> Anyway, I just think there's, and, you know, the #* come early and then the japonica come.

And anyway, I just think it's a beautiful part of the landscape and if people haven't been up there, the Botanical Gardens at Clemson, they just have beautiful, beautiful camellias, don't they?

Yeah.

And um, often, Barbara Smith, often in the wintertime shows us flowers of the week, doesn't she?

Vicky> She does.

Amanda> Yeah, that's kind of fun.

Anyways, let me put this down here.

Bah bah bah bah bah.

Terasa> You really did touch on a key, though.

It's it's it's not having invasive species.

You know, they're going to, to threaten the economy the environment, could be human health as well.

Amanda> Well, wetlands that are so important are just taken over by predators.

It's just the worst thing in the world.

I mean, the wetlands are such valuable places and home to so many specialized plants, and privet's just, and people are still planting privet.

It just breaks my heart.

There seems to be a magic number about 70%.

Some research from Doug Telhami and others that he's worked with, that if we can utilize 70% native species in our landscape, that that is going to be kind of that threshold for supporting wildlife and ecosystem services and that sort of thing.

So certainly we can provide room for some of those things that have been long held traditions here in the South and are not going to be problematic.

Amanda> And another one, quince, you know, boom so early.

And again, the European honeybee is not native to here, but it's active all year round especially down here where it's warm and it needs places to go.

Okay, anyhow, but I have learned a lot about natives from you and thank you so much and then you bring some to share with us sometimes too, and I really appreciate it.

John> Maybe next time.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, Teresa, is there someone we can help?

Terasa> We are going to try to help Leigh Dodson.

So Lee recently retired from Clemson University after 32 years of service, 27 of which she was the business officer for the college that we are housed in, the College of Agriculture, Forestry and Life Science.

And she sent us a picture of a corn plant and she says that the leaves look to be dying on the edges.

So they kind of look burnt on the end.

Please help.

Amanda> Well, Vicky, she may have a green magic marker left over from when she was at work, but other than that, what would you suggest?

Vicky> So we were talking about this and we, we assume she probably moved it like from her office to your house.

And then depending on where she placed it in her house and how she's taking care of it, this could have an effect on why this plant looks like this.

Amanda> More sun coming through a window or less sun or something like that.

Vicky> That.

it could be a draft from a vent.

and that air drying out the leaves, and -- Amanda> Not at my house because I don't have central heat.

So.

Vicky> But it's a really common problem.

So if you put it even in front of like a space heater or something like that, it could cause this too.

And then depending on how she's watering it and what she's watering it with and if she's using, like, a liquid fertilizer, sometimes there can be a salt buildup and then there becomes like a salt toxicity and then it it starts to burn the leaves.

And then, there's something that -- Amanda> If that was happening, you might want to...

So, do you think everybody who has houseplants who's watering them frequently with a liquid fertilizer should flush them periodically?

Vicky> You should flush them.

Amanda> Okay.

>> And you might also want to dilute it a little bit more.

Amanda> Okay.

And maybe apply it less often.

Sometimes it has to be repotted and you have to replace the planting medium.

Make sure that you wash out the pot, get the salt, build up off the sides of the pot.

And then Davis and I found out that if she's watering it with, like, municipal water, there could be a buildup of fluoride in it.

So things, like, for example, at Davis's house, he leaves the water to sit out to let the chlorine evaporate off, and there's, we were reading that there could be a fluoride buildup.

Amanda> Well, I don't want to ask you any questions because I've never heard so many potential answers.

What do you think she should do?

Vicky> So we need to make sure that it's not sitting in front of that vent, getting a draft.

Amanda> Easy to do.

Vicky> You want to make sure that it's not sitting directly in the window, getting through the window.

Amanda> Okay.

>> And then when she waters it, she needs to use either rainwater or distilled water.

Amanda> Goodness gracious.

Okay.

Can she cut that area off?

Vicky> She can trim those off.

She could that that won't hurt anything to do that.

It'll be fine.

It'll make it, it'll make it look, much tidier.

Amanda> Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, I hope that she's really enjoying retirement, too, don't you?

Vicky> I do too.

I'm jealous.

(laughter) You're so young.

You've got a ways to go.

Okay, Terasa, well, um, what's up next?

Terasa> We're going to try to help Louise in Charleston.

She said she was visiting Columbia last weekend and took a tour of Trinity Cathedral graveyard.

There was an old mausoleum there with lots of ferns on it.

Why are ferns growing on walls like this?

Amanda> It is a pretty wonderful graveyard.

John> It is.

It's got a whole bunch of famous people in there.

Amanda> It sure does.

Yeah.

They don't say much anymore, but it's a really cool place and I've seen these pictures that she's shown us and they are really kind of impressive.

That mausoleum, I think, was early 19th century when it was put up.

Amanda> Okay.

John> And it is, in part, made of marble and then there's a lot of stucco, sort of plaster-y.

Who knows what it's all made out of.

But a lot of the chemistry of these substances is the same thing that you'd find in modern day mortar.

or even older kinds of mortar that people would have used when bricks were being cemented together.

Great place to see this kind of thing is at the Strawberry Chapel down in -- Amanda> Yeah.

John> -- Berkeley County.

Amanda> It's beautiful.

John> But this particular place in the Trinity Church churchyard, same kind of thing going on.

And there are, that is what she has there, are they look like those are introduced fern species which get around.

These are at least two different species and one of them is Holly Fern, which is real popular -- Amanda> Sure, yeah.

John> -- with a lot of people.

Holly Fern is Cyrtomium falcatum.

Amanda> And I see it going in kind of funky places around where somebody may have planted it too.

John> And sometimes they also plant this in pots or in foundations, I think, you know, in front of buildings and stuff.

But the other one is called a Brake Fern that's got real slender little divisions of the leaf.

They're they're both very pretty, but.

Amanda> I know that there's some fern that is real unfortunate.

It's getting out all over the place that you've told us about.

right, Right Now, that's a little bit different that it grows in forested settings.

If it's not in people's homes, on people's porches and pots.

Amanda> Yeah.

And that one's called... what is it called?

It's called Dryopteris Erythrosora and it's got red sorts of fern spots those spore spots, the sori, on the back of the leaf.

Very attractive fern, but.

Amanda> Unfortunately, because it is, it is escaped, I understand it's causing... >>Yes.

It's still being offered, though, in the big box stores.

Amanda> Well, still privets all over the place too.

But these lovely ones in the Trinity Churchyard, we don't have, we can, we don't have to say any bad words when we see them.

We can say this is a lovely plant and not causing any trouble.

John> Well, presumably not so much trouble, at least around here.

Amanda> Because sometimes you can go someplace and something that might be in your yard and seems to be behaving well.

You go 200 miles in another direction.

And the environmental conditions may be such that it no longer behaves.

Lots of examples say if you go down to Florida and you see things that are very benign up here or going crazy down there.

Amanda> Yeah.

goodness.

Well, just, this is, so if you see these, it's a nice place to take a stroll at Trinity.

It's really beautiful.

John> And Easter coming up, it's a really pretty place to go.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, Davis, let's have some show-and-tell.

Davis> All right.

What I have brought --.

Amanda> Oh, he's gonna, let's do these that are out here out front first.

Davis> Oh, there they are, okay.

Amanda> Yeah.

Davis> Well, you know, in the Upstate, we have a little bit colder winters than we do in the rest of the state.

And one of the challenges up there is growing gardenias.

Up until maybe 20 or 30 years ago, there were only a couple of species of gardenia that we could grow in the Upstate.

But over the past few years, there have been a number of hybrids that have been introduced, and I brought two of those with us today.

The one over on the right here is one called Diamond Spier Gardenia.

It's very cold hardy.

It does not get huge like the Mystery Gardenia or the August Beauty, the ones that most of our our viewers are familiar with.

And, but it will still get up, you know, four, five, six feet.

Amanda> Okay, that's a nice size.

Davis> With about a 2 to 3 foot spread.

It's very, very upright growing, very fragrant double blooms.

And it does have a little bit longer bloom season than the August Beauty does.

Amanda> Really.

That's a plus.

Davis> And it's, it's a good one for limited spaces.

The one here on the left is one called Snow Girl.

And if you look real closely, it's got very fine foliage.

It's, it's, it actually could be a good substitute for some of the Japanese hollies that are so popular as foundation plants.

Amanda> It really seems that way when you look at it, doesn't it?

Davis> And this one, this one also has the single pinwheel kind of flowers like there climbs hardier Daisy Gardenia does.

So sort of a unique flower for gardenias also.

Amanda> Now, what exposure does it want?

Davis> They can take almost full sun to almost total shade.

Yes.

Amanda> And you'll still get some flowers even in the shade?

Davis> Sure will.

Amanda> Well, it sounds like a wonderful plant, especially for people who are up there where it really gets chilly sometimes.

All right.

Both of these are hardy in zone seven.

So they, with maybe just a little bit of protection, they can survive down to zero.

Amanda> Okay.

Thank you for telling about them.

Davis> You're welcome.

Amanda> I don't want to be anywhere where it's going to go down to zero.

(laughs) We had the most wonderful trip, going to see the flute, man.

And I think you too are going to find this just a fascinating journey.

♪ Native American flute plays ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> I'm visiting with Rand Rowe, and Rand, you make flutes in the traditional Native American way.

>> I try my best.

>> And what do you call your enterprise?

>> I call it Catahoula Flutes.

>> And there's a funny reason for that.

>> We had a dog that was a Catahoula, and she was, she was a mess.

And you never knew what she was going to do.

So basically, I love to make branch flutes, that's one type of flute, and they're kind of that way, too.

You don't know how they're going to turn out until you got them done.

>> Well, let's talk about the first flutes that Native American people made and what was the purpose for them?

>> Well, you traditionally it was, I think, everybody in all of mankind loves music.

And so just that.

But then I'm sure that it was also based on ceremony.

I know that in the Lakotas, they use them as courting flutes.

So a young man, if he wanted to find a girlfriend and he finds his girlfriend, he's got to make a flute.

And it's got to sound good to that young lady and if it doesn't, then he's (laughs) he's out of luck.

>> Well, and since he knew that there had been relationships because he's a grandson, he would, they were called grandfather tuning or something quite fascinating.

>> Exactly right.

So when he would make his flute, he would go out into the woods and take his grandfather's flute with him and look for branches if he was doing a branch flute.

There were basically two kinds with the Native Americans.

And that was the river cane flutes.

>> Yes?

>> Or the branch flutes.

And so up there in the Lakotas, it would most likely be a branch flute.

And so he would go out and try to find a flute that matched his grandfather's, and then he'd bring it home and he'd start making sure was the same length as his grandfather's.

And then he would either bore it out, use burning tools to burn it out, or he would have to break it in half with a stone knife unless he had a steel knife.

So he would take a knife that had been knapped, break that flute in half, then carve out the insides with tools like that.

Or burn it out.

<Yes.> So you'd have the bore on the inside, just like his grandfather's as best he could.

And then he would start tuning that flute and try to get it so that it sounded the same without any holes.

And then he would tune this bottom hole and the next hole and the next hole and the next hole until they had it sounding the same way.

And the way he knew how to lay out the holes was he would put his hand here.

And that's where the first song goes.

And he would put his hand here.

And sure enough, that's where the first hole goes and he used his thumb in between.

Now, this flute I did, I did mathematically, but if you notice -- >> -- It still fits that traditional way.

>> It's almost exactly the traditional one.

>> Yes.

Isn't that something?

>> It's fascinating to me.

>> It is just remarkable.

You have an example of how the earliest flutes would have been made, I think, where you just blew into the end.

>> Right.

>> And that's hard to get the sound of.

I mean, it would take, you said it even takes you half an hour to figure out.

>> Right.

It takes me a while to get back into it because I don't play that flute very often.

>> But because of I believe you said when the French came in and they had European flutes, which you do like this.

>> Right.

And there was another style.

And I think it had something to do with a fipple, I'm not sure, but somewhere along that same time in the 1700s, they started making flutes there, 17 or 1600s, right around there.

They started making flutes with a little block on it.

So that when you blow in the end of the flute, that block is forcing that air to hit a sound edge.

That sound edge and you got sound.

>> So they adapted some of the European flute methods, but they did not adapt playing it this way.

They continued to play it this way.

<Exactly.> And that's why your flutes have these really funky things that cover those dramatically kind of... >> Yeah, they call them the block, the bird or the fetish.

<Yes.> Sometimes I use stones.

I like, you know, ladies like rose quartz.

So I put the quartz on there.

And I love bears.

If you look at this little guy, he's a bear.

<Yes.> And so you're blowing in the end.

The air, this is a big hollow area back here, just like the front of this flute is.

And this, the air comes across this edge and there's a little flat area right here.

And it hits the sounding edge right there.

>> And I can see that there's a little chiseled spot right there.

And that redirects the air down.

>> Exactly.

It's almost shaped like a little triangle And it just shoots that air down there.

And that's how you get your sound.

But if you just blew on it, all that air would just go right around it.

<Yeah> But once I put the block on, and now we'll have (flute plays) >> Goodness gracious!

>> So then all of a sudden you've got a sound.

>> Yes.

♪ (flute plays) ♪ >> So, it plays.

>> But they were grandfather tuned.

So even though they were used ceremonially, there wouldn't be five people playing the flute because they wouldn't have lined up and sounded right.

They were all -- >> Exactly right, in about 19 -- >> -- in different keys.

>> Exactly.

In about 1950, everybody decided, you know, it'd be kind of nice if we could play together.

And so they all came up with a tuning system and they started using mechanical tuners.

And so now it's, it's a little easier to do it than the mechanical tuning.

But there's a chart, and if you tune your flutes, you, you can pretty well play with other people.

>> There are lots of materials and parts of the tree that you could use for your flutes, but you're drawn to one in particular.

>> Right.

I like the branch flutes and I think it comes down to the challenge.

I could make these routed flutes all day long.

They're simple for me to make.

>> And you get to use machinery to do it.

>> Yeah, I can just knock them out and the bore length is the same one and same length and the holes can be all laid out the same.

I can just take 50 of them and line them up and knock them out.

Whereas the branch flute, nah, every one of them requires agony and torture.

(Amanda laughs) And it's just you have to first of all, you got to get the flute cut in half.

And so I use a band saw.

>> A piece of wood.

The branch cut in half.

>> Yeah, right.

Traditionally, they used other, you know, stone tools or steel knives to split them, and then later on -- >> Because you can't run 'em, you can't do this on a router.

>> Exactly, because if you notice, this is a wiggly flick.

>> (laughing) It's just as crooked as it can be.

>> Exactly.

And so I just love the challenge.

And every one of them is its own unique flute.

There's not another one like this.

I can have another one that is in the same key, but there will never be another one just like this flute.

>> Y'all have about 16 acres here near Lugolf and you are fortunate.

You can wander around and let the different trees or branches speak to you, I believe.

>> Exactly.

So we've got the hollies and the sand myrtles and the sparkleberries and the pine, of course, and oak and hickory, and you name it.

I mean, just amazing amount of wood.

They even have a couple of beech trees.

So it's fun to be able to walk out.

And quite frankly, every year in February, I do go out and collect the wood for a year or two, two years down the road.

>> While the trees are deciduous.

>> Exactly.

So I will harvest the branches that I want and bring them back and seal the ends with glue and then let them sit in a bucket in the, in climate controlled area for a year or two, at least.

At least a year.

>> And who's on the top of that one?

>> That's a, I went and looked at Smithsonian.

I looked at the flutes and Native Americans in the Smithsonian and this was a woodpecker, that a style of a woodpecker, that was done by Native Americans back in the day.

It doesn't look that beautiful, but it's what the style was back in the 1800s.

<Yeah.

Yeah.> And so, I just copied that little strange looking woodpecker and put him on there.

>> And then other things that you have on them for decorative reasons.

<Right> Let's talk about some of those as well.

>> Normally, there's a mark of some sort that a Native American would do on a flute, but sometimes you'll find nothing at all.

But you can look at certain flutes being made by certain people and you can see, oh, there's a pattern here.

>> I see.

Yeah.

>> With all of my flutes, though, every one of them is going to have a feather here.

And you see the little dots.

So this is the spirit feather.

And the reason why I do the spirit feather is because it represents when a person, the flute maker, makes the flute, he actually has to take the heartwood out of the flute.

He's got to put his heart into the flute and put the heart back in the flute.

>> Replace it.

How lovely!

>> So that's the reason why I put the feather on all of mine.

And the little dots represent the flute journey.

And then down here I have the, that's New Mexico's Sun Symbol, which is really my thing for the four directions because of the Native Americans' belief system around the four directions.

On the backside I carve out a little guy and that's representing me -- <Yes.> -- with my little beard.

I used to have a longer beard and I always put the key of the flute.

So this is a 'G'.

<Oh, ok!> What year I made it, and then I write on it, "Made by Catahoula Flutes."

And so all of my flutes are set up the same way.

>> Do you ever play with other people?

♪ (flutes playing in harmony) ♪ Yes, I do.

I play with my wife sometimes.

And then just if we go to flute circles, that's an interesting thing.

I'm glad you said that.

There are flute circles all over the United States.

There's a Georgia flute circle up in the Atlanta area, and people from all over Georgia will come together to play their flutes.

Amanda> So I could find a place to go and hear how something that started thousands of years ago in one particular way and for one particular purpose has now, as we would expect, become something that changes with the times.

Rand> Exactly.

Amanda> Yeah.

Rand> And not only that, they're also flute festivals where people go, you know, several thousand people will go and listen to well-known players, play their flutes.

>> Okay.

I want to thank you for letting me come and learn that on your little 16 acres in Lugolf, just like the Native Americans who once lived here, you are harvesting from your land and finding ways to bring joy and happiness and tradition to your life.

>> Well, thank you very much.

And thank you for visiting.

♪ (flute plays) ♪ ♪ ♪ Rand Rowe and his wife are amazingly talented people and we sure had a great time visiting with them and I think Everett used to play the flute a little bit but Rand really plays the flute beautifully.

Thank you so much for let us come to see you.

We had such a grand time.

So hats hats hats.

Once again I went out to Hank and Anne's.

And Terasa, you know, was talking about we don't want to have invasives.

There are things that are not native that have value to some of the things that live here with us.

And so I was getting I was out there.

It was after dark.

It was really cold when I was out there and I've got the daphne at home and I had it in the kitchen to put in a pot and some water to bring over here.

And then dang if a bumblebee didn't fall out and land in the kitchen sink, you know, it was sleeping and it was cold.

And it just reminded me that, you know, this, you know, very wonderfully fragrant plant is a good source of for these animals to go.

And I think, Vicky, bumblebees, the, the females who have already been mated and have, can have eggs when it's the right time over winter and under winter.

Come out.

But and we have we'll have some warm days but then cooler nights is that what happens?

Vicky> And a lot of our insects do that so you're going to have a lot of your bees and wasp and you'll see beetles that do that on warm days they'll come out.

Super cold days, you're like, where are all the insects at?

And you have to remember that their body temperatures are based on ambient temperature.

So when it's nice and warm, they're going to be out.

And obviously this one was looking was foraging for food, which I thought was kind of fun.

And then related to the incredibly wonderfully smelling daphne, I think they're related, aren't they, John?

John> Edgeworth and Daphne were in the same family.

Amanda> They are?

Okay.

And um, once again, daphne's kind of funny, though, because instead, you have to, it's kind of nice to bring a little bit of it inside, it looks like, Hello, here I am, you know, if you stick it in a vase, but then that again, just wonderfully fragrant and two things that are not that don't cause any trouble and bring joy to my heart.

And I think the bumblebee was glad to have it too.

Okay.

All righty.

Well, what have you got over there?

I don't know if those things are bringing joy to my heart or not.

Vicky> So it's one of those things where if I don't bring insects, you know, I'm going to bring weeds out of my landscape.

Amanda> Yeah.

Sure.

Vicky> And since we're talking about, you know, you did mention pollinators, we have to remember that a pest is subjective and can change over time.

Amanda> In whose opinion?

Vicky> And are these actually considered weeds or not?

Because a lot of our winter weeds show up and this is the first time that our pollinators are going to have access to pollen and nectar.

Amanda> And as you just said, they're coming out at various times, depending on the ambient temperature.

Vicky> Yep.

And this one right here is one that you shared with us.

Amanda> Yes.

It's all over.

You know, and I travel to farm country and it's everywhere and really showy right now.

Vicky>> And so it looks like one of the brassicas.

Yes?

John> Probably belongs in the genus Raphinus, which is very close to Brassica.

Vicky> Okay.

Amanda> Is it a radish?

Vicky> Is it.

John> It looks radish-y to me.

Amanda> I ate some of the flowers and they were good, but the root, I picked at it with my fingernail.

It didn't taste like it was quite going to be a radish, so I don't know.

Well, John, come on, spill the beans.

John> Oh, right.

So this is.

Yeah, Raphinus.

And that's where radish comes from.

And um... Vicky> Well, you should have started there so I didn't call it a Brassica.

I just assumed, because it had yellow leaves that it was a Brassica.

John> A lot of times they look very similar.

Vicky> Okay, so it's a, it's a radish.

John> Yeah.

And a lot of sometimes you'll see their, their flowers will be kind of white rather than yellow.

Vicky> Oh, okay.

John> And it is a European plant and it is a member of the Mustard family and everybody knows about that.

>> And I see great big clumps of it on the side of the road.

John> And people talk about it's a weed, and it is a weed and it's kind of pretty.

It's all pretty.

And you know what else?

If you don't want to have it, you can eat it.

Amanda> Yeah, I ate some, it tastes good.

Yeah.

So you can put it in your salad.

(crosstalk) Vicky> So what I would recommend is make sure you know, this is not, that you know where this came from and that it wasn't treated with, with a pesticide.

(crosstalk) So that's one of the things that you'd want to make sure that you check on.

Davis> Were you that hungry, John?

(laughter) Amanda> It's tasty.

Yeah.

Okay.

What else have you got over there?

Vicky> So one of the healthiest ones that I have in my landscape is very, very common.

And this really is one of the very first weed plants to flower as we're coming out of winter.

Amanda> Yes?

Vicky> And this is Henibt, and I think it's one of the prettiest little plants because leaves wrap around the stem and it's got that.

So this my favorite color is magenta.

Amanda> Yes.

Vicky> And it's got, like, a hooded flower on it.

What is, is there a term for that?

John> Of course, there's a term, it's botany.

So what you're talking about the magenta part, of course, is the corolla, All the petals are fused together, it being a good member of the mint family.

Vicky> So that makes it a tube?

John> There's a tubular portion and then there's two lips.

So the upper lip will be right, sort of a a little helmet like thing that arches over the goodies that are projecting out of the tube.

And then you see this real pretty lower lip that has the spots on it.

And that's a good place for the little bees to land on.

Amanda> Oh, okay.

John> When they stick a lens inside the tube.

Amanda> A little landing platform?

Okay.

Vicky> So fun fact, whenever this is in bloom and you've started collecting your honey from your bees, it'll have a tinge of purple to it.

And it's because they had collected -- Amanda> Come on!

Vicky> -- the pollen from this particular plant.

Amanda> Isn't that fun?

That's delightful!

Vicky> If you're lucky enough to see a picture of a bee, You can tell that it's not yellow pollen.

It's more of like a reddish petal, oh, a dark red.

yeah.

Amanda> I hope I can see a picture.

Vicky> That's really, really attractive.

Amanda> Okay.

John> Here's another fast fun fact if you let me because you said that the leaves are wrapping around the stem.

That's certainly true.

But down at the bottom, they have long stalks.

Isn't that weird?

So the leaf at the bottom of the stem will have... Look at that.

Amanda> Uh-huh, wow.

And then, as it gets higher up on the stem they tend to wrap around it.

Vicky> Oh, that's interesting.

John> Yeah.

Amanda> Pretty little thing, isn't it?

Vicky> So this one right here, if you've ever seen this, this is it has a little basal rosette and that can be really tiny.

This plant, I'm sure that Adam Gore has talked about it before and there's some cool things about it, but it also makes it difficult to manage.

Amanda> Oh, goodness.

Vicky> Because this is one of the bitter cresses.

And the thing about this thing is you can, a lot of your weeds, you can mow them and remove the seed head, and it and you've stunted the plant and all that kind of thing.

If you mow this low, it'll start flowering shorter and shorter and shorter.

And then when it puts on these seed pods, these are, you can walk through the yard when they're mature, and you can hear something popping.

Sometimes you've got seeds hitting you and you're like, What is going on?

These seed pods are explosively dehiscent.

Amanda> Explosively dehiscent.

What a cool term!

Vicky> And so, I mean, it's it's a very, when you have this in in your in your landscape, it can't get out of hand.

But once you start actually learning about this plan, it's a really neat, it's got a lot of survival skills built into it.

So it's one of my it's one of the ones that I really like learning about.

Amanda> Okay, cool.

Davis, I think you've brought some of your favorite plants.

I don't know if they have explosively dehiscent pods or not, but I bet they have some characteristics that are really fun.

Davis> They certainly do.

The one on the right is Viburnum.

It's one of the evergreen Viburnums.

This particular one is called Moonlit Lace.

Amanda> Oh, what a beautiful name.

Davis> It's, it's hybridized between the Laurustinus Viburnum and and the the David Viburnum.

So you get the the heat tolerance of the Laurustinus coupled with the foliage texture of the David Viburnum.

It's got a really interesting texture.

It'll get these beautiful inflorescences that start out as very compact.

Amanda> It's just gorgeous!

Davis> The colors are really nice and that makes it a nice year round plant.

When it blooms, the flowers are, the buds are beautiful pink and they open up, and the white flowers completely cover the plant for three to four weeks in the Spring.

Amanda> Really?

Three or four weeks?

Davis> It's an excellent plant.

Grows in sun or part shade and it is one of the few evergreen viburnums.

It is hard even in the Upstate.

Amanda> Now what have we got over here?

Davis> That is a box honeysuckle, Lonicera nitida.

This particular one is called Thunderbolt.

You can see from the foliage that it's a really pretty chartreuse variation.

And this one, unlike most, most colorful plants, this one prefers shade.

It doesn't do well in full sun.

Amanda> And I like the growth habit.

It's kind of different.

A little sprawling.

Davis> Great texture.

And when people hear the word honeysuckle, of course, they immediately think of the invasive Japanese honeysuckle.

This one is a very well-behaved little, little foundation shrub that you can tuck away into a shady corner and light it up.

Amanda> What fun, what fun, what fun.

Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

And now we are going to take you to one of my favorite places, Kalmia Gardens.

♪ Amanda> I'm in Hartsville, South Carolina, speaking with Dan Hill, and you are the Director of Kalmia Gardens.

Dan> I am indeed!

I'm glad you're here.

Amanda> And this area, which is a wonderful place to come to, you have the Hart House, which is from the 1730s, and a beautiful upland area here that's just planted with all kinds of things.

And how did Kalmia Gardens come into existence?

Dan> Well, Kalmia Gardens has been through many families, and it ended up finally with the Hart family and the Coker family.

And Miss May actually started the gardens, and she started it in the Great Depression, and people called it "Miss May's Folly."

This area had gone into disrepair and had become a dump site.

And people refer to it as Miss May's Folly, because this lady was going to build a garden on a dump site.

Amanda> But she did, and I know I get your newsletters and it tells me what's in bloom, or has beautiful color, all the things to look for when you come.

And, of course, you're open every day of the year.

and it's free.

Dan> We are!

She wanted it to be an open garden, an open green space for people to come, explore and learn about nature, and that's exactly what we do.

Amanda> And, of course, right when you get here, you see this incredible beech tree, and then you've got a sycamore that just knocks your socks off, but if you walk back from the house, you come to a place that is just so incredibly special, and it's got a wonderful way, way, way, way, way back history to it.

So tell me what we're looking at as we stand here on this observation deck.

Dan> We're looking at ancient geology, basically.

In the Pee Dee region, where we are, we're pretty much flat as a pancake.

There's not much topography, not much change in elevation, but here, we have topography, we have change in elevation, we have the 60 foot bluff that drops down to Black Creek.

And that bluff enables our namesake Kalmia latifolia, mountain laurel to grow.

It's a north facing bluff, the temperature's just right.

So it enables this plant to have a special area where it can grow and flourish.

Amanda> Well, and we have Kalmia latifolia all over the state.

I mean, it's called mountain laurel, but we have it at Fort Jackson, on deep sands.

I mean, it's stunning, the adaptability of this plant, but you said that the ones here have a very special history.

They're not like the ones in the rest of the state necessarily.

Dan> These are an old group of mountain laurel.

So when you travel to the far end of the gardens, basically you've become a botanical time traveler.

You're traveling back in time, 1000s of years back in time on how southeastern forests used to look.

Basically, when the glaciers came down, they stopped at Pennsylvania, that big climatic change forced northern species southward.

1000s of years elapse, glaciers retreat, northern species retreat, back to where they came, except for ones that had a special niche, a special spot, and this is that spot.

So we have mountain laurel, we have Galax and we have witchhazel at the far end of the garden, and all those are what you would expect to find in the mountains.

Amanda> They're what you call glacial remnants.

Dan> Glacial remnants.

Absolutely.

Amanda> It's just stunning, isn't it?

Dan> You can be a botanical time traveler here at Kalmia Gardens.

Amanda> And so we have, as you look out, I see incredible white oaks, you said there's almost a line of them as you start this journey down towards the creek.

Dan> On the edge of our bluff that drops down to the Black Creek floodplain, if you were to look straight down on the garden, you would almost see a straight line of white oaks, and I think that's fascinating because in nature, you know, nature doesn't like straight lines, really.

So to see that is really, really interesting.

Amanda> What other plants are interesting that we are going to encounter as we make our way down?

Dan> Well, we have multiple habitats here because we have different elevations and we, who are in the upper surface, are really a winter garden.

We have lots of camellias blooming and it's just absolutely gorgeous in the winter, lots of flowers on the upper surface, which is more of a formal garden, and then as you go down the bluff, you start entering beach habitat.

We have lots of magnolias, couple of different species of magnolias, mountain laurel, of course, horse sugar, so it's really a diverse habitat that is supports a lot of our neotropical migrants, a lot of our bird population.

So you can hear today, just a plethora of birds species singing.

Amanda> And y'all have put in a way to make it accessible for people who can do stairs to get all the way down to the bottom.

Dan> Right.

Dr. George Sawyer, the garden's first director, put in a set of stairs going down the 60 foot bluff, so it's a lot easier than traversing just raw dirt, you know.

And he did that with the help of AmeriCorps volunteers.

Amanda> That's a pretty nice story.

And then Black Creek itself is, is kind of a beautiful body of water.

Dan> I love black water ecosystems.

I'm from the southeast, I've done a lot of traveling, and when I travel, I really miss that black water ecosystem that's unique to home, to the southeast where we are.

Amanda> And what gives the water that color?

Dan> That's a really neat story.

It's the needles off the conifers.

It's the tannins that are in the bald cypress, the pond cypress and some of the pond pines.

When they fall into the water and decompose, it releases the tannins, and that tans the water.

The same thing happens with tea.

That's why tea is the color that it is.

Amanda> And if I, when you get to the bottom, if you want to, that provides the only access to a very important area, a heritage preserve.

Dan> Exactly.

We are the gateway to the Segars-McKinnon Heritage Preserve.

And both properties together are as large as Central Park in New York.

Amanda> Gosh!

Dan> It's a giant green space.

Amanda> Yes, it is.

And I think there, there are even some other plants that are of interest to those who are botanical seekers.

Dan> There are some really unique plants over on the heritage preserve, and one of my favorites is Atlantic white cedar.

There's a nice stand of Atlantic white cedar left over there.

Amanda> And that's an unusual member of that family because it likes sandy, kind of damp soils.

Dan> It does, it does have a unique habitat that you typically find it in.

Amanda> Yeah.

So I just think it's a wonderful time to come and see all the things.

There's always something in bloom, but the mountain laurel, I was particularly interested in talking about.

The flower itself is just fascinating.

It's a little fused petal.

Dan> They are gorgeous, and the stamens are tucked in.

Amanda> Yeah.

Dan> And I love it because it's like a spring loaded trap for pollinators, so to speak.

When they land on it, the stamen will fling out and tap them on the back to ensure that the insect gets pollination on it.

Amanda> And when I was little, we would, we had some property in the country on deep sands and there was mountain laurels that grew there as well, and um, because it is a very diverse plant to find around the state, and when we held it upside down, it kind of looked like ballet dancers.

Dan> Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, I love to see it on Black Creek to remind me of something out of a painting, you know, just the white on the dark.

What a beautiful contrast.

Amanda> And then here, I think y'all brought in some hybrids and kind of specialized cultivars, so that when people are in the flat area, they can see some of the different colors that have been produced.

It can be very varied.

Dan> It can be, yep, in our upper surface and in our parking lot, there are some really unique ones with some really pretty splashes of red and some deep colors in 'em.

Amanda> People always try and improve on the natives but um, I just think the regular mountain laurel we're gonna see here is one of the loveliest features of South Carolina, and a larger area, as these are, because, as you said, they came down ahead of the glaciers.

What a wonderful story.

Thank you so much!

Dan> I love it.

Thank you for being here!

♪ ♪ If you go to Kalmia Gardens, I think you will find it becomes one of your favorite places to visit as well.

And you can see why.

John, what in the world have you got over there?

John> Amanda, you know, I've talked about going to the Latin American food markets every now and then.

We're good doing this one.

This is called tamarillo, and it's called a tree tomato.

And I'm going to share it.

Cut it open here.

Amanda> Woo!

John> Innards are just like cherry tomatoes.

Amanda> It sure is.

John> And I'm going to share it with Davis to see what he thinks it tastes like.

And I'll take some too.

And let's just see, Davis.

Tamarillo, it's a it's a relative of a tomato.

Amanda> It is?

Come on!

John> Only it grows as a tree.

Amanda> A tree?

John> Yeah.

Amanda> So where, where does it come from?

John> They're tropical.

Amanda> Tropical?

John> Very tropical, very seedy.

Amanda> Is it?

Davis> Tastes like a tomato with a little hint of mint.

Amanda> Whoa.

What fun.

So it's used, I guess, as a fresh fruit that people just enjoy?

John> They make smoothies out of them and you can make salsa and everything.

Tamarillo.

Amanda> I'm so glad that you travel the world in Columbia, South Carolina.

I don't have to.

John> That Latin American food market.

Amanda> Thanks a lot.

Okay.

And thank all of you for being with us.

And I hope that you'll join us next week.

Night night.

♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

Family owned and operated since 1916, this family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.